Nat Barr:
Thank you, Sam. Liberal candidate, Katherine Deves has been driven into hiding after receiving death threats over controversial comments she made about transgender athletes. The Warringah candidate has reportedly moved to a secret location and sent her family out of Sydney amid fears for her safety. The Labor Party is not without conflict of its own, with opposing views on people smugglers, reportedly causing a rift. And some members standing for re-election publicly opposing a key policy. For more, we are joined by Deputy Prime Minister, Barnaby Joyce, and Labor MP, Tanya Plibersek. Morning, both of you. Tanya, is it a fair election if candidates can’t share their views without fears for their own safety?
Tanya Plibersek:
No, it’s 100% unacceptable in our democracy that anybody should be standing for election and frightened for their safety for expressing their views. And I saw Barnaby copped it on the side of the road recently with someone getting agro with him. It’s unacceptable. We are so fortunate in Australia to have a democracy where we decide issues through the ballot box, through debate, and not through threat of violence. Barnaby and I will disagree, but we can disagree in a civil way. And I mean, look, the sad thing for me is I really worry that it turns people off participation in politics. I’ve had something slip through my letter box, hand delivered, saying that they hope my children die of painful cancers. I mean, there are some really awful people out there.
Nat Barr:
Wow. Was that just recently, Tanya?
Tanya Plibersek:
No, no, this is years ago. But what worries me about it, I’m tough, I can handle that stuff. What really worries me about it is people hear stories like this and they think politics, that’s not for me, I’m not going to get involved. And our democracy is so much better when people do get involved. When normal people who can have a civil debate actually get involved in our democracy. It is completely unacceptable any threats being made during an election campaign like this.
Nat Barr:
Yeah. Barnaby, what happens with Katherine Deves now? Does she have any chance of winning, because she and her family have had to go into hiding? Will she get sympathy because she’s being attacked so viciously?
Barnaby Joyce:
Well, look, I’d have to be on a unity ticket with Tanya on this, it goes right back, argumentum ad hominem. If you want to argue with someone, argue about their policy, argue about their position, but don’t argue about them. And when we inflame things by an attack on a singular person, in this case Katherine Deves, and make it all personal about Katherine Deves. Then you are saying to people, well, the way you resolve your problem is to be a threat to the actual person, Katherine Deves. And that’s outrageous. I mean, Katherine has strong views on regards fairness and sports, and other issues. And that is why we have a parliament, you can have the discussion about that.
Barnaby Joyce:
But to actually have it in Australia, the fact that, oh, well, there’s now a threat to your life so you have to remove yourself from the political discussion. I mean, that’s what we do. That’s what Tanya does and what I do. We are part of that wonderful thing which is democracy in Australia. We love our nation because you can say what you like and stand behind it. As long as you have a cogent argument, you might prevail in your argument. If your argument is ridiculous, then you’ll lose your argument, which is reflected in the vote. And that is a civilized, safe way to deal with these issues.
Nat Barr:
Yeah. Look, we’re hearing from New South Wales police that they haven’t received any notification of these threats, but hopefully she can make a complaint so we can get to the bottom of them. Because, as you say, this shouldn’t be part of public life. Let’s move on. More than a dozen Labor MPs have publicly spoken out against the policy to turn back asylum seeker boats, a policy which of course has been endorsed by Anthony Albanese throughout the campaign. Tanya, have you got a party divided on this issue?
Tanya Plibersek:
Oh, absolutely not, Nat. In the past, these people have had different views. They backed Labor Party policy, which supports turn-backs, supports offshore processing, supports regional resettlement. And I could ask Barnaby the same question. Barnaby Joyce voted against regional resettlement and offshore processing in Malaysia when Labor proposed it when we were last in government. Scott Morrison voted against regional resettlement and offshore processing in Malaysia when Labor was last in government. Why have they changed their minds? People do.
Nat Barr:
Is it okay to just change your mind? Barnaby, this was a pretty big policy, and a lot of Labor MPs were against it publicly.
Barnaby Joyce:
Hang on, hang on. It’s a big policy. And we talk, well, Murray Watt, Mike Freelander, Terri Butler, Anne Aly, Josh Wilson
Tanya Plibersek:
Are you going to answer the question about Malaysia, Barnaby?
Barnaby Joyce:
… Steve Georganas. Do you know who is not on that list who really wants to be on that list? Tanya Plibersek. Please, let me speak. What we have here is a seminal policy of the Labor Party, where they say they believe in turn-backs. And not just one, not an outlier, we have 14 people. And I think the 15th might be on television with you right now, who don’t believe in this. They don’t believe in Australia’s border security policy. And they are on the record, and in the Labor Party that is so important. Because usually they’re so disciplined, if you cross the floor on the Labor Party they kick you out. You’re gone. And we’ve got 14 people on the record, with senior people, Terri Butler, Pat Conroy, Murray Watt. I think some of these are shadow ministers. And they don’t believe in their leader’s policy that was announced nearly days ago. And it adds to the fiasco of Labor Party policy and competence in the heart of an election. In the very middle of an election. Whether it’s the safeguard….
Nat Barr:
Okay, Tanya, this is a big policy. Just hang on, Barnaby. Tanya, this is a big policy. Are you in favor of boat turn-backs? The whole of Australia knows that a lot of Labor MPs were not in favor of this.
Tanya Plibersek:
Were not in favor. And Labor policy is regional resettlement, it’s offshore processing, its turn-backs when it’s safe to do so. And I really can’t understand why Barnaby won’t answer the question of why he voted against regional resettlement and offshore processing in Malaysia when Labor was last in government. Has he changed his mind?
Nat Barr:
Barnaby?
Barnaby Joyce:
Well, I don’t know, probably because it wasn’t the question that was asked, Tanya. And the question that was asked is why 14 of your colleagues are out on the record against the Labor Party policy.
Tanya Plibersek:
See how he’s avoiding the question?
Barnaby Joyce:
… and there’s 14 out on the record that are
Nat Barr:
Barnaby, can you answer that question for Tanya?
Barnaby Joyce:
I absolutely support turn-backs, I support temporary protection visas and offshore processing. I am 100% there. I’m 100% there because I believe…
Tanya Plibersek:
Why’d you vote against it in parliament, Barnaby?
Barnaby Joyce:
… the alternative is people drowning at sea. And if you’ve got 14 on the record, Tanya, you’ve got 40 who want to be on the record, and you are one of them, Tanya. You’re one of them.
Nat Barr:
Okay. I think we’ve worked out
Tanya Plibersek:
Then why’d you vote against Malaysia in the parliament?
Nat Barr:
I think we’ve worked out that we change our minds, and that’s allowed. Thank you. We’ll talk again next week.
